i think the debt ceiling punt was the latest example of this. the president says, if we don't do this the market is going to implode and congress puts its tail between it legs. i haven't heard anything from s&p or moodies who say we want the debt ceiling to go higher. everybody watching this show who has cut back 0, government has to learn how to do the same thing. it's cowardly in washington to continue to hide behind the notion that we're going to collapse overnight as a nation if we don't keep spending ourselves to death. >> i agree. congressmen have basically sent a message that today is not the day we're going to stop spending our children's and grandchildren's money, and charles is exactly right. the reason why our credit got downgraded is because of our out of control spending and out of control debt. the fiscal cliff deal even we just witnessed, it's such -- added four trillion dollars to our deficit over the next ten years. so, congress is not serious about reigning in spending and that's exactly when the we need to too. >> but they're